In the last post I tried to strike an optimistic tone. I was called on it by PeteyBee0 who was quick to point out that the Ukrainians have a long ways to go yet:
“Don’t get too excited. We just spent a bunch of money to chase out the Russian puppets and put in our puppets. They are no angels either- a mix of fairly innocent nationalists, ordinarily corrupt politicians, neo-nazi thugs (no joke! look up Pravy Sektor and the Svoboda party), and IMF bankers who would like the chance to loot the country as they did Ireland, Spain, Greece, Italy, etc.
I firmly believe the people of Ukraine ought to have the choice of getting screwed by the Russians or by the US/NATO/IMF, so it is a good thing that Yanukovich is gone. But we should keep our eyes open.
Moreover, Russia’s actions are similar (though thus far less unlawful) than things the US has done in the last 10 years, when our own interests were at stake. The Bush Doctrine of international law has established that it is legal for us to intervene in other states when it is a matter of national interest, so Putin is following in well worn footsteps with his “Putin Doctrine” of doing the exact same thing that the US has been doing. Only he is less original…”
I’ll speak to the cynicism later. For now I want to look at some of the differences between Ukraine today and the American colonies back in 1776. When we broke with England, we had a few things going for us.
First was distance. It was a fair distance across the ocean and it took time to get communications back and forth. Unless you were ships crew, it was also not a voyage you did often. That limited King George and his people in how much they could micro manage and influence affairs in the colonies.
Second was France, Germany and a few other countries on the European continent who were England’s competitors. They realized that helping the colonies break away weakened England and that was a good thing for them. They jumped in with both feet, selling the colonists all sorts of weaponry and eventually sending troops as well (remember Lafayette and the Prussians?). So you could say that America was born partly as a result of a proxy war between England and the rest of Europe.
A third thing we had going for us was the Enlightenment. This was a cultural movement beginning in late 17th- and 18th-century Europe emphasizing reason and individualism. One of the proponents of the enlightenment was John Locke whose ideas figured prominently in the founding fathers thinking. This gave the colonists a huge head start down the road to rule of law and away from strong man rule.
The reality for Ukrainians is that they have almost none of these advantages and thus they have a much bigger hill to climb to get to a rule of law situation.
There is no barrier of distance and time to slow down a Russian response. Ukraine is on the Russian’s doorstep. Russia has always looked at Ukraine and their other border states as a buffer zone. [I’ve always thought Russian leadership was xenophobic mainly because of their insistence on keeping as large a buffer zone as possible. Given the history of invasions by Vikings, Huns, Mongols, Muslims, Nazis, et.al, I suppose that’s understandable] Given that paranoiac mindset, they will go to considerable lengths to hang onto that buffer zone. I suspect that they will interpret ANY interest by Western powers in a freer Ukraine as a direct threat to their sovereignty. Their recent actions certainly seems to support that viewpoint.
The Western nations are supportive of efforts by Ukrainians to move towards the rule of law. Even though we live in a modern age of transportation and communications compared to the 1700’s, the decision making processes in democratic governments do not move any faster than they did in colonial times. It takes time for people to confer and come to consensus on actions. Where the 1700s European powers acted separately, today’s governments are used to coordinating and conferring on joint actions – which stretches out the decision cycle. Where the American Revolutionary War lasted a number of years, it would be quite possible for the fighting in Ukraine to be over in a matter of months or weeks, long before the Western powers could get their diplomatic and military act together [Does anybody reading this remember the Israeli-Arab six day war?]. Along with that is the comparison to the European nations who saw advantage in weakening England. Russia is already weakened and no longer a major power. The Western powers may not see advantage in weakening Russia further and may even conclude that doing so would push Russia to do desperate things to re-establish their prominence. [I know we have transferred the nuke weapons from former Soviet republics to U.S. custody – but I find it hard to believe that the Russians did not hold a few back]
Although the enlightenment was a European phenomena, I’m afraid it does not have currency in the Ukraine of today. The movement led to the creation of the United States because many of our founding fathers were closer to the times and were heavily involved in thinking and reasoning out what it meant to have good government. They also had the freedom, in the colonies, to do that thinking and eventually, to act on it. The Russians, on the other hand, have spent nearly the last century stamping out any trace of independent thinking and free thought in their former empire. Thus Ukraine does not have a core of philosophical thinkers to coalesce around nor any experience with freedom to draw on. Their only example, from childhood on, has been strong man rule. Although many of them may want the freedoms we have, they have no concept of how to make them work plus the temptation to BE the strong man is so omnipresent.
As I said above, the Ukrainians have a steep hill to climb of they want an honest government.
As to the comment above it appears that PeteyBee0 is down on governments in general and also a believer in conspiracy theories, as in the western powers got together and decide to rip off Ukraine after ripping off a few other nations. Sorry – I can’t buy that.
First is the fact that we have freedom of speech and the press. Anybody who tried what PeteyBee0 is implying would be found out and exposed. Remember Watergate? That was a very small conspiracy and fell because other people saw advantage in exposing it. The Washington Post expected prestige and sales, their source Deep Throat, saw a chance to right a wrong and the politicians that piled on saw a chance for political advantage. If there was a concerted effort to ‘rip off’ a whole country or several, then I would expect someone to speak up and present credible evidence. [Now in the former soviet empire, conspiracies can work – mainly because the penalties for speaking up can be so very fatal.]
Second is that I believe that the PIIGS countries did it to themselves without anyone else helping them along. You can’t pay people government benefits consistently in excess of your government revenues without either bankrupting your country or printing so much money that inflation bankrupts it for you.
Third is that s*&t happens. Our involvement in Iraq was a a two stage affair. Iraq invaded Kuwait. Kuwait asked for help and the international community lead by the U.S. under Bush Sr. kicked them back out and eliminated their ability to invade again. Then along comes Bush Jr. who decides (for whatever reason, legitimate or not) to do daddy one better and practice regime change. I never did wholly agree with going into Iraq – I figured it was a case of “you break it – you buy it” – which our soldiers did for many years without a clear militarily achievable objective. Then 9-11 happened. The United States was attacked by terrorists who were state supported if not outright state sponsored. Our response to that put us into Afghanistan – also with a you break it – you buy it result. Bush Sr knew the limits of what the military could achieve and planned his strategy to incorporate those limits. Bush Jr. did not. PeteyBee0 might have a case where Bush Jr. and Iraq is concerned, but not for Bush Sr. or for our involvement in Afghanistan. While I support the rationale for going into Afghanistan, I must also conclude that the strategic thinking by Bush Jr. and his advisers was woefully inadequate.
As always, comments are welcome